GM to sell Volt for $41K, lease for $350 a month

[TheQueen]

DETROIT – General Motors Co. said Tuesday its Chevrolet Volt electric car will cost $41,000 when it goes on sale in November.

While the price is about $8,000 more than its closest rival, the Nissan Leaf, GM said it will offer a $350-per-month lease deal that's essentially equal to the Leaf's. That will put the battery-powered Volt within reach of many people, GM said.

Both cars also are eligible for a federal tax credit that will cut their prices by $7,500. The Volt would fall to $33,500 while the Leaf's would drop to $25,280 from nearly $33,000.

Some states, such as California, Georgia and Oregon, offer additional tax breaks that lower the price further.

The Volt, a 4-door sedan, runs on battery power for up to 40 miles but has a small gasoline engine to generate electricity once the battery runs down. The gas engine can generate power to run the car another 300 miles.

That's a big selling point because some drivers worry about the battery going dead during trips. This so-called "range anxiety" dogged GM's experimental EV-1 electric car in the 1990s.

To give the car wider appeal, drivers must know "they're not going to get stranded," said Joel Ewanick, GM vice president U.S. marketing, as he announced the Volt's price at a conference in San Jose, Calif.

GM's lease deal is $350 a month for 36 months with $2,500 down. Nissan's lease plan is $349 per month for the same length of time with $1,995 down.

GM will unveil the Volt first in California, then in New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, Washington, D.C., Michigan and Texas. The cars will first be sold through 600 Chevrolet dealers. But in 12 to 18 months, dealers nationwide should offer the cars.

Nissan's Leaf, which goes on sale in December, can go up to 100 miles on a charge. The car doesn't have a gas engine and must be recharged once its battery is depleted.

Nissan spokeswoman Katherine Zachary said the Leaf itself emits no pollution and is designed for people whose daily travels are within its range.

[Computer Magic]

Priced a little high, but I like the idea.

[BeeJay]

I hope this is a hit. We need this technology not just available, but sold in a way that appeals to average people.

[Garyhoov]

If they're coming close break-even (Speculation varies on how much they're losing on each one) at that price, that's very impressive.

I've worked with some manufacturers of auto parts and it's crazy how much effort they put into minimizing costs. Since most of the important components on the Volt are first generation, there are likely dramatic price reductions possible in the future as they learn how to do things better. Quality will also improve with experience.

In theory, the electric components could be less expensive and longer lasting than traditional components (think about the engineering required to control and contain thousands of explosions happening each minute in a traditional engine), but until they've refined things they'll be at a disadvantage.

The sooner they can get real cars on real production lines and sell them to real customers, the sooner they can improve things to the point they can compete directly with . . . and maybe even surpass traditional technologies.

Interestingly, about 2 years ago, Toyota - the undisputed leaders at the time in terms of reliability, technology and electric drives - basically said that GM was over-reaching and they were foolish for trying to make this leap. Things have certainly changed since then, but GM is still unproven.

I'm really rooting for GM. This goes beyond this car and the idea of electric drives and gets to what used to make the US special. We used to be daring, innovative risk-takers who pushed the limits, but those values haven't seemed to be working for us recently. I certainly hope we can get back to that and this could be an important, symbolic step in that direction.

[Garyhoov]

Not the Volt, but if you're interested in the Volt, you may also be interested in the Fisker Karma, though at roughly $80,000, it's in a completely different price class:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mo5YOZ2saZk&feature=player_embedded

[TheQueen]

I hate to rain on this parade, but I will. Have you read this Gary?

G.M.’s Electric Lemon

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/30/opinion/30neidermeyer.html?scp=4&sq=GM%20Volt&st=cse

It's interesting if half of what he says is true.

[Garyhoov]

I hate to rain on this parade, but I will. Have you read this Gary?

G.M.’s Electric Lemon

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/30/opinion/30neidermeyer.html?scp=4&sq=GM%20Volt&st=cse

It's interesting if half of what he says is true.

When I first read the headline, I thought: "Oh, crap, are we in trouble here?"

But when I read the article, I don't see many, if any, problems.

The points the author makes are somewhat superficial if not just plain meaningless.

1. Yes, the price is $41,000 which was generally what was expected from the start. I believe the lowest price I heard suggested was $35,000 (with a range of $35,000 - $45,000 anticipated). Personally, I wish the government would not have clouded the issue with the tax incentives, but they are what they are. Considering the technology of this vehicle, $41,000 is not a bad price (especially considering point #3). Based on my driving, I would probably save approximatley $1500 per year in gas/energy costs with the volt, so 5 years would make a difference of $7500 in energy costs alone.

2. Yes, the design changed . . . as ALL show cars do, but the final design is still close to the concept. And by they way, the current design has been in place for, I would estimate, over 2 years. I am a member of a Volt enthusiast site ( http://gm-volt.com/ ), and, if I remember correctly, polls at that time indicated that we actually PREFERRED the modified design ( I know that's the way I voted ), or at least thought it wasn't a bad update.

3. They won't sell it at a loss? HAPPY DAY. Original speculation was that they would sell it at a loss, but if they can sell it for $41,000 and make money doing it, that's GREAT. The technology of this car is so extreme that cost for the first years production is going to be very high but drop dramatically as they learn how to make them. The first year's production is scheduled to be small and I'm betting they will sell every one they make. Why artificially reduce the price if demand is willing to take all the supply you are offering?. Within a few years, we will see dramatically less expensive and higher quality Volt models, but for now, GM is doing the logical thing required to launch this model.

The author seems to imply that the Volt is less than what was expected from the start, and I think that is a misleading and/or ignorant opinion. The Volt is arriving on schedule with pricing and other details where we, who have been following the development, have been told they'll be since the beginning.

Toyota executives thought GM was crazy to push this kind of radical car through so quickly, but they SEEM to be on schedule and doing a great job.

How reliable will the car be? Unfortunately I am anticipating problems because of how much new technology there is, but if they can even come close to current designs, that will be HUGE and then we will be on our way to a new automotive landscape.

I frankly think the Times author is way off in implying this is a disappointment at this point . . . that's not to say it still may not be a disappointment, but I am VERY encouraged by what we have seen so far, and I'm willing to bet I know and understand this car (and cars and technology in general) better than the Times author. I will gladly invite him to debate if he is interested.

[TheQueen]

I think the problem with the Volt is that there's all this expectation that frankly NO car can fulfill. As for your third point, did Toyota sell their hybrid car at a loss? I can't remember. I could be wrong, but I seem to be remember initially people complaining about the higher prices for their hybrid. But I think people who decide to make the plunge with a Volt or the Nissan Leaf view it as an investment for better things to come down the road.

[Garyhoov]

As for your third point, did Toyota sell their hybrid car at a loss? I can't remember.

I can't remember specifically either, but I don't remember them ever being cheap. They currently run around $25,000 - $30,000 and based purely on comfort, performance etc. as compared to other cars, I think we'd have to agree you pay more for the Prius than you would for an otherwise comparable car.

It may not be public knowledge as to whether Toyota took a loss or not and sometimes it may even be difficult (depending on accountng ) to even say when a car is selling for a loss or not - even with all of the numbers in front of you.

Imagine, for example, the Camaro. GM probably spent millions upon millions developing that car, testing prototypes, getting DOT and EPA certifications, crash testing, etc. and then they invested huge amounts in setting up the production line, tooling etc. They spent all that money with the knowledge that they'd be selling 100,000 vehicles per year for the next 5 - 7 years. If they had made 5000 Camaros and then quit, they would have lost huge amounts of money. Even though, technically, the labor, burden and material costs going into each one of those cars may have cost less than what they invoiced the dealer, they would have lost a lot of money on each car sold . . . but creative accounting could call it a profitable car.

In the case of the Volt, GM could, very easily, sell the first run of 10,000 cars for $35,000 knowing that their labor, burden and material costs will be $45,000 but they could roll that per car loss into the whole development cost. Eventually their costs will come down to the point they may only be spending $30,000 to make that same car while still selling it for the $35,000.

In the case of the volt, I'm sure they did a LOT of marketing research and determined that the market was willing to pay $41,000 for the car, and market conditions were probably much more important in establishing the initial price than short term profit/loss. If they knew the initial production would cost them $45,000 per car but come down from there, but the market was only willing to pay $41,000, they'd almost certainly take the loss and set the price where it needs to be.

My first thought upon reading the article was: "Cool! They managed to bring this in so they could sell it without taking a loss on the initial run."

. . . but the more I think about it and the more I consider that the author doesn't seem to offer much insight, I'm a little afraid that it's very possible that, despite what the author says, GM still could be putting out $50,000 or more in labor, materials, burden, etc. for the initial run.

[Garyhoov]

Here's a cool video:

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/translogic-episode-54/36028817657997611

[Garyhoov]

Here's another non-Volt but electric car story (I figure keep it all on one thread rather than starting a bunch of new ones):

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/08/26/tesla-motors-pays-huge-fine-for-lacking-emissions-certificate-of/

What really bugs me about that is not that the government is stupid enough to initiate the fine - that would seem part of the normal process if an apparent discrepency is found - but that they actually had people looking at it and thinking about it and nobody was able to step in and waive the fine for a car THAT HAS NO EMISSIONS.:rollseyes

[Garyhoov]

This seems to be the first review I've seen of an actual production Volt (though I'm not 100% sure they're not playing semantics because they call it a "production-spec" car. That would lead me to believe it has all the parts designed as have been approved for the production car . . . but it may not have been assembled on an actual production assembly line. If that's the case, I would expect a true production car to, if anything, be slightly more refined.

Here's an excerpt:


While it's easy to get lost in the hows and whys of the Volt's technology, what's truly impressive is that the car performs flawlessly. GM has gone to great – even excessive – lengths to make the Volt as mainstream as it can. There's a shallow learning curve to operation, which mostly surrounds finding the green-glowing start button on the center stack near the shifter and dropping the bulky, console-mounted unit into drive. After that, the experience has a lot in common with piloting a four-cylinder Chevy Malibu. In our test drive, we couldn't turn up anything that made us feel the Volt's development was incomplete.


While the 3,781-pound Volt will never feel like a sports car, there is some fun to be had.But as much as driving the Volt is not so different from driving a regular gasoline-powered car, at the same time, it is. First there's the lack of noise, which is easy enough to get used to. To be expected, the Volt is as whisper-quiet as the most expensive luxury sedan when it's in EV mode. But even when driving in extended-range mode, most of the time you'll be hard-pressed to really notice the gasoline engine revving up. Then there's the lack of drama from the transmission, which we couldn't really feel doing much of anything in any mode, despite the knowledge that it had to be doing something. What it wasn't doing was producing that rubber-band acceleration effect of most hybrids, where you can really feel the electric assist kicking in. Power delivery in the Volt is consistent and predictably tied to what your right foot is doing.

You can really feel that GM tried to make acceleration at part-throttle mimic that of a car with a conventional automatic transmission, which is to say, the throttle response is a bit soft, which, no doubt, improves efficiency. Yet driving more aggressively can yield a pretty engaging experience, as GM says the car can do 0-60 miles per hour in less than nine seconds -- accomplished in Sport mode, which improves throttle response a bit. Eight seconds and change seems like an entirely reasonable estimate based on our time behind the wheel. At higher speeds, up to and over 80 miles per hour, the Volt feels confident and tracks well, and it never feels sluggish if you're willing to work the throttle. If there's any disappointment in the electric drive experience, it's that even in Sport mode the initial throttle response is not as immediate as we imagine it could be.

And the full article is here:

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/10/20/2011-chevrolet-volt-first-drive-review/#continued

[TheQueen]

Guess what I saw on the street last week?? I took some photos with my iPhone and I'm going to try and post it. It actually looked very good. It actually had the symbol of a major energy company on the rear bumper so it kinda makes sense they'd have one. Not sure if it's an early prototype or the first generation model that will be sold.

[Garyhoov]

Guess what I saw on the street last week?? I took some photos with my iPhone and I'm going to try and post it. It actually looked very good. It actually had the symbol of a major energy company on the rear bumper so it kinda makes sense they'd have one. Not sure if it's an early prototype or the first generation model that will be sold.

Cool! They apparently are out there. I did a double-take about two weeks ago when I saw one at a light next to me, but that's the only one I've seen so far. They've been making and selling real, production versions since the end of last year, but you're still probably more likely to see a Lamborghini than Volt on the road. The first ones will be selling in CA and NY/NJ, so you and I are likely to see them before, Doug for example, does.

I had to take an Auto News blogger to task a little while back. He saw statitstics that showed something like (I can't remember the details but it was something like this): 1000 Volts sold in January and 500 in February. He used that tiny bit of information to go off on a rant and basically said: "See! People don't want these things. They're barely out and already people are losing interest in them." I had to point out to him that they were selling everything they could make and there were long waiting lists, but their production was still slow and they sold fewer because they produced fewer . . . not because demand dropped.

[Garyhoov]

Holy Crap! I just did some quick Google searches to see if I could find more details about the Volt production and the facts are completely obscured by IDIOTIC right wingers who are all over the internet proclaiming the Volt a failure because it's sales numbers are low . . . WITHOUT POINTING OUT THAT THE SALES NUMBERS ARE PURELY LIMITED BY SUPPLY AND NOT DEMAND.

Here's one example:

http://www.americandailyherald.com/20110204196/automotive/slow-sales-for-nissan-leaf-and-chevy-volt

And there are so many right-wing nuts jumping on the band-wagon that they are completely crowding out logic, common sense . . . and FACTS.

Simply idiotic. It's one thing to quibble over debatable philosophical differences in pushing a certain agenda, but when you have to so blatantly distort reality to prove something, at what point do these people stop and say to themselves: 'Wait a minute, I'm part of a propaganda machine.'

I'd like to see some of these idiots actually take the step of going down to their Chevy dealer and show us pictures of Volts sitting around gathering dust. The simple fact is you CAN'T BUY THEM BECAUSE THERE AREN'T ENOUGH OUT THERE. Chevy is working to ramp up production as fast as possible and they're already planning to produce something like twice as many next year as they had originally planned.

[figmentmom]

Holy Crap! I just did some quick Google searches to see if I could find more details about the Volt production and the facts are completely obscured by IDIOTIC right wingers who are all over the internet proclaiming the Volt a failure because it's sales numbers are low . . . WITHOUT POINTING OUT THAT THE SALES NUMBERS ARE PURELY LIMITED BY SUPPLY AND NOT DEMAND.

Here's one example:

http://www.americandailyherald.com/20110204196/automotive/slow-sales-for-nissan-leaf-and-chevy-volt

And there are so many right-wing nuts jumping on the band-wagon that they are completely crowding out logic, common sense . . . and FACTS.

Simply idiotic. It's one thing to quibble over debatable philosophical differences in pushing a certain agenda, but when you have to so blatantly distort reality to prove something, at what point do these people stop and say to themselves: 'Wait a minute, I'm part of a propaganda machine.'

I'd like to see some of these idiots actually take the step of going down to their Chevy dealer and show us pictures of Volts sitting around gathering dust. The simple fact is you CAN'T BUY THEM BECAUSE THERE AREN'T ENOUGH OUT THERE. Chevy is working to ramp up production as fast as possible and they're already planning to produce something like twice as many next year as they had originally planned.

Just like politics. :rotfl

[Christy]

I suspect those bloggers or whoever were plucked from deep inside some oil billionaires pockets :lol

Having said that, $41k is a lot for a car :blink The lease is doable, but I am not a fan of leases :dunno We buy and then drive the damn thing til it dies :lookaroun

[Garyhoov]

I suspect those bloggers or whoever were plucked from deep inside some oil billionaires pockets :lol

Having said that, $41k is a lot for a car :blink The lease is doable, but I am not a fan of leases :dunno We buy and then drive the damn thing til it dies :lookaroun

I think you'd be crazy to buy one now. The only reason would be to be able to say you were one of the first ones. Demand is high, supply is low, the technology is completely new and nobody really knows how to make them yet.

Over the next 3-4 years, more models will become available. The ones that are currently available will be produced in larger numbers and that production scale and experience will bring the cost down and the quality up. Within 3-4 years, I'm confident that the price will only be somewhat higher for an electric over a comparably performing ICE.

. . . BUT, the long term concern will still be range. The power storage density of (even Lithium Ion) batteries is not sufficient to produce a car with range dramatically greater than 100 miles at a reasonable weight (without going to extremes such as exotic, light-weight components, low-rolling resistance tires, extreme aerodynamic designs, etc.).

The range can be extended as Chevy is doing with the Volt using an ICE, but the more exciting long-term possibility is a fuel cell as the range extender. And now that electronic drive systems are becoming real, the barriers to fuel cells are being broken down. The problem is Obama killed the idea of fuel cells and they're not in the long-range planning. Some manufacturers are still working on them, but they'll need hydrogen infrastructure to make them work.

Electric vehicles are becoming real, but they may be doomed to the role of city-cars unless a real initiative towards fuel cells is plotted.

[figmentmom]

I suspect those bloggers or whoever were plucked from deep inside some oil billionaires pockets :lol

Having said that, $41k is a lot for a car :blink The lease is doable, but I am not a fan of leases :dunno We buy and then drive the damn thing til it dies :lookaroun

So do we. The family joke is that we buy a car and keep it unitl it dissolves in the driveway. :rotfl

[Christy]

So do we. The family joke is that we buy a car and keep it unitl it dissolves in the driveway. :rotfl

Andy said some crappy car in front of him the other day had a bumper sticker that said "I'm compensating for something" :rotfl

He wants to get one for his little Fusion :goofy

[figmentmom]

Andy said some crappy car in front of him the other day had a bumper sticker that said "I'm compensating for something" :rotfl

He wants to get one for his little Fusion :goofy

:rotfl

I always wanted a bumper sticker that read, "Starfleet Academy" :goofy

[Garyhoov]

:rotfl

I always wanted a bumper sticker that read, "Starfleet Academy" :goofy

:lol

http://www.automopedia.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/startrek-motorbike.jpg

[Christy]

:rotfl

[figmentmom]

:lol

http://www.automopedia.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/startrek-motorbike.jpg

SEE? Right there, on the windscreen, THAT'S what I want!!!!! :love

[Garyhoov]

SEE? Right there, on the windscreen, THAT'S what I want!!!!! :love

:rotfl

I didn't even notice that detail.

[figmentmom]

:rotfl

I didn't even notice that detail.

:lol